Talk:Hans Frank

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Converted?

Converted to Catholicism from what? Kwantus 17:59, 2005 Jan 28 (UTC)

From Nazism. Wellreadone 01:43, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

Annoyed Hitler?

In 1942 he lost his positions of authority outside of the General Government after annoying Hitler with a series of speeches...

What was the component of these speeches that annoyed Hitler? How could one annoy Hitler and not be dead or punished in some way, rather than merely transferred? I'm just curious. --NightMonkey 01:16, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

The reality of Nazi Germany is sometimes different than the myth. People could in many cases annoy Hitler, to the point of shouting at him (Jodl, Zeitzler, Rudolf Schmidt), and survive unpunished - even keep their jobs. Unlike Stalin's Russia, people in Hitler's inner circle didn't have much to fear (if they didn't plot against him). 2A02:AA1:1049:4C98:9194:3F62:E210:F43D (talk) 09:58, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

There are reports that Hitler asked Hans Frank to investigate his family tree. The story goes that Frank discovered that Hitler's mysterious grandfather was a tobacco merchant called Frankenburger, a Graz JEW! He is said to have given Hitler a number of documents as evidence of this. Is there anything to suggest this might be true? Have any such documents survived? It has been pointed out that Jews were banned from Graz until 1860, but how strenuously was this ban enforced? I dare say there were illegal immigrants then, as there are today and if this gentleman was wealthy, which seems likely as he allegedly employed Maria Anna Schicklgruba (Hitler's paternal grandmother) as a cook, could he have "paid off" immigration officials? Did Hans Frank ever say anything to confirm or deny this story?

The idea that Hitler's grandfather was Jewish doesn't really fit. It was a confusion of dates, names, times and places in which none of them ever matched up. There are two plausible grandparent figures and neither was Jewish. --Davril2020 21:32, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

The reason for Frank's survival under Hitler is cited as twofold in Airey neave's book on the Nuremberg Trials. One is Frank's gross flattery of Hitler, and another is the fact that Frank had been ordered to undertake inquiry into Hitler's genealogy by Hitler himself. Though the details of Hitler's parentage are impossible to verify conclusively via independent means today (we have no surviving DNA samples, for example, that would answer the question once and for all), research into the subject has been, needless to say, intense. Even when Neave wrote his book, the questions remained fascinating. He writes (p. 111):

• "In 1930 'disquieting rumours' had spread about Hitler's origins. It was said by his opponents that his father was half-Jewish. Writing in his cell at Nuremberg, Frank agreed that this was possible, if not likely, to be true.
• In 1930, the subject was of the gravest concern to Hitler. He ordered Frank, the consientious jurist, to undertake a secret inquiry. Hitler's grandmother, Fraülein Maria Anna schicklgrüber, was cook to a well-to-do Jewish family. In 1837, at the age of forty-two, she had an illegitimate son. Who was the father? The question was of momentous importance to the Nazi movement, for the child was Hitler's father, Alois.
• There were two candidates. The first was Jewish: the nineteen-year-old son of the household, by name Frankenberger. The second, a millworker, Johann Georg Hiedler. He later married her and legitimised the boy. At the time of the inquiry, the latter solution appealed to Frank since it did not imply that the father of Alois was Jewish.
• Frank later cast doubts on this solution at Nuremberg. He wrote that the Jewish Frankenburgers paid for the maintenance of Alois until he was fourteen. This, said Frank, was to avoid a public scandal. Was it because Fraülein Schicklgrüber had named the nineteen-year-old son of the house as the father, and threatened legal action?
• Alois Hiedler changed his name to Hitler in 1876 and thus became the Führer's father, by his niece and third wife Klara Põlzl. No doubt Alois was illegitmate. But was his father Jewish? It is more likely that the millworker Johann Georg hiedler was the father, but the Frankenbergers who provided for the Hiedler family contributed, as Eugene Davidson writes, to one of the great ironiues of history."

If there existed a kind of 'fog' obscuring the true facts, to the extent that the above doubts assumed some substance in either Frank's or Hitler's eyes, then Frank's knowledge of Hitler's potential genealogy would provide Frank with quite a bargaining chip. Plus, looking over the curious history of the Nazi party, it becomes apparent that murder was the solution that was applied to troublesome people outside the Party (e.g., General Kurt von Schleicher). Ernst Rõhm, having resigned his Nazi party membership in 1925 (see the Wikipedia article on Ernst Rõhm for more details of the convoluted situation) was technically an 'outsider' in this sense, though Hitler's vacillation right to the very end on dealing with him (a pattern that became recurrent through Hitler's rule) allowed Rõhm to become a more serious potential threat to Hitler than he might have been had Hitler acted earlier. Frank, as an 'insider', was subject to the more devious manipulative solution of Hitler's - placing Frank in an official position (complete with suitably pretentious and long-winded title) while ensuring that his responsibilities in office overlapped with and clashed with another appointee (in this case Obergrüppenführer Krüger, in overall charge of the police in Poland). Keeping troublesome insiders busy in bureaucratic wrangles with other Party appointees was Hitler's 'divide and rule' strategy, a point alluded to but not stated in quite such explicit terms in Neave's book. It is also safe to state that Hitler regarded Frank with some degree of hostility. Neave cites several exchanges between the pair that testify to this quite eloquently, though Frank never descended to the nadir achieved by Alfried Rosenberg, the Nazi party 'philosopher', of whom Neave said "By 1940 Hitler had started to treat Rosenberg with contempt. Perhaps it was because the wrteched man really bored him stiff." (p. 103) Frank's competence as a legal person, and the fact that he pursued Hitler's wishes in Poland with ruthless thoroughness, were probably two more reasons why Hitler, though displaying animosity toward Frank because he was a lawyer (Hitler made quite a few proclamations with respect to his views on lawyers), never quite reached the point of despising him to the same extent as Rosenberg. Hitler no doubt enjoyed the reports from the SS on the conduct of Frank and his family in Poland too - Neave writes:

• "Reports from the SS on the 'unbelievable conduct' of the Frank family had poured in to Hitler, who laughed, no doubt unkindly. He knew the emptiness of the Governor-General's position. Poland was subjugated by the SS. But he had to admit that Frank had done his best to carry out his original orders. These were characteristic of Hitler himself: 'To assume administration of the conquered territories with the special order ruthlessly to exploit this region as a war zone and booty country, to reduce it, as it were, to a heap of rubble in its economic, social, cultural and political structure'." (p. 112)

Quite a few figures 'annoyed Hitler' and lived to tell the tale - Colonel-General Alfried Jodl being one of them. Though Jodl was technically an 'outsider', not being an actual Nazi Party member, his contributions to Hitler's military campaigns in Europe made him an 'insider', and one who was in military rank subordinate in any case to Wilhelm Keitel, who was a much weaker man and much more easily subject to Hitler's whims and caprices. Doubtless Hitler took much advantage of that in power struggles with military officers ... Calilasseia 09:10, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Gauleiter of Poland (?)

The Info box states that Frank was a Gauleiter - I'm not at all sure that this correct; he was the Governor-General. (If anyone's interested, there is also a notorious quotation of his at Völkischer Beobachter.) He is, however, included in the List of Gauleiters.

The use of 'Poland' is also misleading/wrong: it should be General Government, the whole point of the Nazi invasion being the destruction of the state of Poland. QED: the caption to the photograph should read: Governor General of the General Government.--Major Bonkers (talk) 11:50, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Also (see introductory paragraph): why is a Polish Jew not the same as a Pole?--Major Bonkers (talk) 11:54, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, he was not a gauleiter, as the GG was not formally incorporated into the Reich and there were not gauen in the administrative system of the General Government.

As to Pole and a Polish Jew - this has puzzled me for quite some time now. In the US nobody would normally divide the WWII victims onto Spanish Americans, African Americans or Italian Americans. Same for UK, Russia or any other major WWII power. However, when it comes to Poland suddenly people start dividing all lists onto Polish Jews, Polish Poles, Polish Belarusians or Polish Germans. The most absurd thing in this is that the division was invented by the Nazis themselves, as one could be categorized as a Jew by the Nazis in the concentration camp even if the person in question had little to do with Jews except for some distant partial ancestry. Yet, after the war the Nazi division prevailed and even now people count Jewish or Polish victims of WWII using Nazi criteria. The other side of this story is that Belarusians deported to German concentration camps could be categorized as either Poles or Russians, but not as Belarusians. Should we also mention Belarusian Poles in the lead then? //Halibutt 17:54, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Don't know the answer to the question posed about Belarus and its citizens, but you have mentioned on innumerable occaisions that you are a Jew, and those of us involved in "our little club", know you are from Poland. So what then is the present situation in Poland regarding this matter? I agree that the U.S. situation is different, and that my oppinion is based on personal associations. Dr. Dan 23:20, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Arrest and Rough Treatment

What is the source that he was treated "very roughly" by American soldiers after his arrest? Seems to be contradicted by his gallows statement, in which he thanked the allies for their "kind treatment". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.189.169.190 (talk) 14:13, 14 February 2008

I agree this is a contradiction; my Uncle was part of the team that arrested Frank, and he even corresponded with the wife, Brigitte, for years afterward, because he was concerned about her welfare. I doubt he was treated roughly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Enoebel (talk • contribs) 23:47, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

No. The beating of Frank by the ARRESTING soldiers is a documented fact - they got out of hand and roughed him up pretty badly. However, while in prison awaiting trial and during his trial, he was well-treated and this is what Frank was referring to. HammerFilmFan (talk) 15:05, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Predecessor

I don't think that Ignacy Mościcki should be listed as his predecessor. This gives a wrong impression as if there was a continuation of Polish government on Polish territory. In fact, Poland has never introduced a puppet Nazi government. Also, this is inconsistent with Ignacy Mościcki entry, where completely different person is (correctly) listed as Mościcki's successor. 142.103.8.38 (talk) 19:59, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Family section

The bullet listing of his children in the overly-detailed Family section seem less than notable, more like a list than an encyclopedic entry. I am no expert on this subject, just happening upon it by way of the Poland article on the Main Page. Should this be so detailed? --Scray (talk) 02:31, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Hans Frank´s daughter Brigitte committed suicide at age 46. According to her brother Niklas this was because she did not wish to live longer than her father, who was executed at the same age. Shulgi (talk) 12:41, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Christopher Lambert

Does anybody find him somewhat similar in appearance to Frank? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.12.91.242 (talk) 12:57, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

== Writings by Frank ==

The article quotes : "Frank voluntarily surrendered 43 volumes of his personal diaries to the Allies". Does anyone know where these archives can be found?--Alexandre Rongellion (talk) 00:13, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Image problem

The image 'The corpse of Hans Frank after he was hanged' overlaps with and obscures some of the text in my browser - I've tried to fix it but can't do so without introducing lots of whitespace. Anyone know how to fix it? Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 06:58, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Religion and SS rank

Old Catholic, converted to Roman Catholicism in prison before execution — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:4D:2E70:5E7:ADFA:614E:2D8C:67B (talk) 11:45, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

I would prefer to have a source for the former. The latter is well known. The alleged SS rank would need proper sourcing as well. We currently have a fake issue at the deWP, where a Ram Oren novel (Gertruda's Oath) has been sold as a real biography (de:Karl Rink, AfDed). The novel sells Frank as an SS-General commanding SS officers "in Poland". In fact, Frank ruled the so called General Government but was never in the SS. Actually he had various infights with the likes of Heydrich and Himmler which sidelined him in various major issues. Those issue would need more care as well in this article. Polentarion Talk 18:24, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Old Catholic denomination:

http://www.deutsche-biographie.de/sfz16846.html .
http://www.ifz-muenchen.de/heftarchiv/1971_3_2_klessmann.pdf . 

- John M. Steiner, Power Politics and Social Change in National Socialist Germany, The Hague /NL 1975, S. 404 (source: biogram written by Hans Frank himself for Maor Douglas M. Kelley at Nuremberg prison: since childhood a member in the Old Catholic church). - Friedrich Zipfel, Kirchenkampf in Deutschland 1933-1945, Berlin 1965, S. 135. - Dieter Schenk, Hans Frank. Hitlers Kronjurist und Generalgouverneur, Frankfurt 2006, 486 S. - Matthias Ring, "Katholisch und deutsch". Die alt-katholische Kirche Deutschlands und der Nationalsozialismus, Bonn 2008 (with a lot of sources). (In short: http://www.alt-katholisch.de/fileadmin/red_ak/CH-Archiv/arc_08/08_3_5.htm ). and: The "Reichstagshandbuch" 1938 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.166.87.110 (talk) 08:46, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Infobox image size

The current size

The default size

I believe that the aspect ratio of the infobox image in this article is such that presented at the infobox's default value it is too large, the visual equivalent of SHOUTING. I suggest that the current size is more appropriate. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:11, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Memoirs section / claim

The section titled "Memoirs" contains the statement,

According to Frank, Hitler told him that the letters did not prove that the Frankenberger son was his grandfather but rather his grandmother had merely extorted money from Frankenberger by threatening to claim his paternity of her illegitimate child.

I believe that "grandfather" ought to be replaced by "father" here. While this seems evident from the sentence alone, I'd like to ask someone else to check in case I missed something.--CRau080 (talk) 07:46, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Chess Patron

I think a section discussing his interest in chess and sponsoring of tournaments during the war that included Alekhine (with whom he also played informal games) would be appropriate. Of course, wartime tournaments completely excluded Jews and many Polish-Jewish chess masters were sent to concentrations camps and murdered.

Hans Frank Memoirs ... Original Text

Hans Frank Memoirs, suggested edits using selected original text, translated from German to English.

https://www.amazon.com/ANGESICHT-GALGENS-Erkenntnisse-Geschrieben-Justizgef%C3%A4ngnis-ebook/dp/B0797WXN4Z/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

From Kindle search, pages 350-352

Hans Frank writes ...

"But who was Hitler according to his blood?"

"Racially, Gruber described Hitler as typically non-Nordic, Eastern Slavic."

"On presentation of a letter, he told me that this was a "disgusting blackmail story" by one of his most disgusting relatives, concerning his, Hitler's, ancestry. If I am not mistaken, it was a son of his stepbrother Alois Hitler (from Hitler's father's other marriage) who quietly hinted that "in connection with certain press statements there would be an interest in certain circumstances in our family history"

"These press releases, on alluded to here was that "Hitler had Jewish blood in his veins and therefore had little legitimation to be an anti-Semite"

"But these blackmailing references from relatives were somehow questionable. And I investigated the matter confidentially on behalf of Hitler. Overall, I have found the following from all possible sources: Hitler's father was the illegitimate child of a cook named Schickelgruber from Leonding near Linz who was employed in a Graz household."

"But what is absolutely strange about the story is this: this cook Schickelgruber, Adolf Hitler's grandmother, was employed in a Jewish family household called Frankenberger when she gave birth to her child. And this Frankenberger paid alimony for his son, about nineteen-year-old, beginning with the birth and up to the fourteenth year of this child of the Schickelgruber."

"I would like to state the following: Adolf Hitler himself knew that his father did not come from the sexual intercourse between the Schickelgruber and the Graz Jew. He knew it from his father and grandmother's stories."

"That Adolf Hitler certainly had no Jewish blood in his veins seems to me to be so blatantly proven from his whole manner that no further word is needed."

"So I have to say that it is not entirely out of the question that Hitler's father was therefore a half-Jew, a result of the extramarital relationship between the Schickelgruber and the Graz Jew. According to this, Hitler himself would have been a quarter Jew. Then his hatred of Jews would have been partly due to blood-angry relatives hate psychosis"

SteveBenassi (talk) 00:03, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Execution or Murder?

Hello,

My edit using the word "murder" was undone. I think "murder" rather than "execution" is the more appropriate word for the killing of the Jews. The use of the word "execution" lends a facade of legality to the murders.

Best,

JS (talk) 20:34, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

You're insisting on the claim, yet again ignoring extrajudicial executions by firearm, which are very much associated to the nazi regime, through various methods, and other autocracies, and which in their very name contradict your claim.

Execution does not imply legality, as neither does the vaguer "murder" even, and plenty of nations use it within their legal tool set, that's an anachronic, democratic-centric view on the matter. Execution aptly describes the mode in which it was carried out in that specific case of murder (murder being the general term, used throughout the article as a general description of his killings). The fact that the murder was carried out by state executioners, as a consequence of their orders, in their official capacities, is not a minor aspect of this specific murder to be left out in its description.

I have added an hyperlink to extrajudicial execution in the phrase, in case anyone else feels the way you do. However, you've now broken 3RR and have started an edit war. Further insistance will lead to a report.

Especially in such a relative minor difference of perspective, stable content takes precedence, and so editors wanting to change it must be convincing of other editors, not the reverse. RustyRapier (talk) 13:25, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

I understand this is part of a "greater work" against words related to murder. Hypernyms have their value, but they don't necessarily supercede other terms in "legitimacy", nor is the english language richer if other specific terms are simply erased by one user of the language.

I would posit this is not very productive editing, and ask that you do not engage in edit wars when resistance is found in such a "cruzade".

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lidice_massacre&diff=prev&oldid=1255098933

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kurt_Daluege&diff=prev&oldid=1255099672 RustyRapier (talk) 15:57, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Don’t have time for this right now. Someone else will fix it in the future. JS (talk) 19:43, 26 November 2024 (UTC)